turbo swap

[EV0300]

basically i'm swapping my evo 3 td05h for a fp 18g with the td05 housing is it ok to swap without getting a tune straight away since they are relatively close or is it not such a good idea? i've reasearched and found other comparisons but nothing like what i am planning on doing. any help is much appreciated cheers

 

[JSTYLE]

u can swap it and drive it around however i would not recommend any WOT driving until it has been tuned!

in regards to the turbos reading the specs they are no where near the same!
the FP is pretty much a TD06 turbo in a TD05 housing.

Jon

 

[ozyvr4]

It should be fine at the same boost levels. The FP 18g will out perform the evo 3 turbo at 22psi & up. Up to there it will be very close. The standard tune it the ecu will have enough fuel for the slight difference.

The FP ported housing & larger exhaust will give you better high boost. With the evo 3 turbo can not push as high boost @ high rpm.

The FP 18g 6sl2 is not as large as the TD06. The 6sl2 exhaust wheel is slightly smaller I believe. I would get full boost ( 24psi @ 3800rpm )

 

[lozza]

It should be fine at the same boost levels. The FP 18g will out perform the evo 3 turbo at 22psi & up. Up to there it will be very close. The standard tune it the ecu will have enough fuel for the slight difference.

The FP ported housing & larger exhaust will give you better high boost. With the evo 3 turbo can not push as high boost @ high rpm.

The FP 18g 6sl2 is not as large as the TD06. The 6sl2 exhaust wheel is slightly smaller I believe. I would get full boost ( 24psi @ 3800rpm )

he is right. more importantly the ECU will stilll pull enough ignition timing as it spools. peak torque is the danger. that depends on what boost control you have and avoiding "spiking"

 

[ozyvr4]

Have you still got the original ecu & tune.

I would look at the ecmlink upgrade & the boost control to go with it.

I was using a Apexi AVCR when I had the turbo fitted.

With the evo exhaust mani you might get faster spool than I did as I have a FP race mani. They have quite large runners.

 

[EVOCPE]

Correct, the TD06SL2 uses a 61mm turbine wheel and the TD06H uses a 68mm im sure

Just whenever u can, get a tune to suit the setup, slight differences could mean alot of damage in the end

 

[EV0300]

I have ported cast exhaust manifold, and ECU is all stock as far as i know will be getting ECMlink as soon as they come back from holidays might just leave it out until i'm ready to tune just to be safe.

 

[ozyvr4]

I just want to clarify that I only meant stock boost should be fine , but to get the most I would def get a tune or a proper wideband with display fitted to moniter afr's.

If you have never had the car tuned anyway I would get it done to get a little more from the car aftre the turbo is fitted, til then keep boost standard.

Good choice on the ecmlink. It is a great piece of kit. I have been using 1 for 3+ years in my VR4.

 

[DOUGMO]

As Jon said, not reccomended, it all seems fine and feels great until it shits itself.
The new turbo will flow a lot more air on the same boost..........if you had to drive it I would only do it off boost.

 

[BMGTZ]

even if the new turbo flows more air.....the "air flow meter" will see that and to the point of "cut" will tell the ecu how much air is coming in. it will be "just OK" however a tune with ECM will make it better

 

[lozza]

As Jon said, not reccomended, it all seems fine and feels great until it shits itself.
The new turbo will flow a lot more air on the same boost..........if you had to drive it I would only do it off boost.

yes it is generally not advisable to swap turbos without a tune (or anything for that matter) but this upgrade is small, from 36lb/min (EVO3 16g)) to 40lb/min (18g). up to 15psi there will be little difference in flow between those 2 turbos, and since he is running stock boost, the ECU will easily cope with these small changes.

 

[Smutt]

Assuming fuel type and AFR (wot) remain constant
HP = capacity x rpm x boost x ignition advance x ambient air temp x efficiency of intercooler x efficiency of turbocharger....

think about it.. what are you changing when you select a bigger turbocharger... ... EFFICIENCY OF TURBOCHARGER and LAG TIME

I fail to see that a GT3076 turbo will produce more power than a GT2871 at the same boost..! the only difference is turbocharger efficiency at the nominated boost.. (higher efficiency = cooler air... but this is negligable with similar sized turbo's) this is where you find smaller turbochargers outperform larger ones... why... because you get the nominated boost earlier in the rev range... Each compared turbocharger must flow within the compressor map given the same turbine AFR!

If each turbocharger is making power inside the compressor map given the same turbine A/R the only difference you will see is the lag and temperature difference... = f**k all.. from an overall power output figure..

Yes a larger turbocharger is more than likely more efficient and the shaft spins slower, therefore the compressed air temp is lower etc etc etc... but.. so what... The constants remain the same..

More lag generally equals a slower street car... of course open for debate.. but... generally speaking..

This is a contentious issue... a myth perhaps...??? one of those... YOU MUST DO items... I disagree..

If your WOT AFR's are on the money and the in-between... then... EVERYTHING OK! (excluding strength of hardware, forged rods etc.. for increased boost and rev's etc..)

Getting it tuned will optimise the "off-boost" performance as well as the top end performance from a timing point of view..

Monitoring knock with your new turbocharger as well as the AFR's throughout the rev range will guarantee performance and safety...

Probably why most recommend getting it tuned... but these tools/ monitors are available for the avid technical minded backyard tuner...

Caution as always!

 

[lozza]

think about it.. what are you changing when you select a bigger turbocharger... ... EFFICIENCY OF TURBOCHARGER and LAG TIME

turbo's are air pumps - when you change a turbo you are changing the air flow and at what pressure ratio (boost) for a given shaft speed. this is what changes the fuel requirement.

efficiency changes and lag are related but are as a consequence.

 

[Smutt]

turbo's are air pumps - when you change a turbo you are changing the air flow and at what pressure ratio (boost) for a given shaft speed. this is what changes the fuel requirement.

efficiency changes and lag are related but are as a consequence.

changing the air flow characteristics is the same as moving the compressor map; "to the right" for a larger tubocharger (air pump).. giving you more top end, more air, more air flow.. call it what you will.. and yes there is an increased need for fuel with sustained boost at top end...

Air flow required is determined by size of motor, max rpm and max boost = lb per minute value and BHP
see this link
http://www.turbofast.com.au/TFmatch.html
which then suggests a turbocharger for you that has a compatable compressor map at a given Turbine A/R.

EDIT... for a full Calculator see this link
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/



again... all physical characteristic of your engine remain unchanged (bore, stroke, cc in head).. increasing plenum size, piping size, throttle body size only changes the velocity not the pressure (boost) your engine ultimately receives....
Force = Pressure x Area

But Velocity can become an issue;
reducing the velocity is required for high boost and high rpm because if your piping or "the throttle body" is the next smallest thing in your system it may act as a restrictor plate.

Are you confused yet?

 

[EV0300]

i was confused 5 posts ago

 

[lozza]

changing the air flow characteristics is the same as moving the compressor map; "to the right" for a larger tubocharger (air pump).. giving you more top end, more air, more air flow.. call it what you will.. and yes there is an increased need for fuel with sustained boost at top end...

Air flow required is determined by size of motor, max rpm and max boost = lb per minute value and BHP
see this link
http://www.turbofast.com.au/TFmatch.html
which then suggests a turbocharger for you that has a compatable compressor map at a given Turbine A/R.

again... all physical characteristic of your engine remain unchanged (bore, stroke, cc in head).. increasing plenum size, piping size, throttle body size only changes the velocity not the pressure (boost) your engine ultimately receives....
Force = Pressure x Area

But Velocity can become an issue;
reducing the velocity is required for high boost and high rpm because if your piping or "the throttle body" is the next smallest thing in your system it may act as a restrictor plate.

Are you confused yet?

jeez keep it on track bud, what EVO300 wants to know is "is changing from td05h 16g to td05h 18g safe?"

although there is no compressor map for an 18g comp wheel this turbo will flow 10% more than a 16g (it has been interpolated from 16g to 20g) and measured in practice. if you run one of these turbos (like i do) you will know that they offer very little over a 16g up to 1 bar. they will outflow a 16g only in the upper rpm and boost range. An 18g will have an increased boost threshold of 200rpm compared to a 16g, depending on if there is any back clip on the turbine wheel.

I will say it again:

EVO300 - if you can, play safe and tune, otherwise run max 1 bar boost until you get a chance to tune. And don't stress!