Understeer (too much)

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GROOV3

GROOV3

Evolution II
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
258
Location
Adelaide
Well for ages ive put up with it but ive had enough. My car has very poor turn in and alot of understeer. I turn and the tyres just squeel till after 1/2 way round and i really put my foot in.



i'm running -1.5 camber and about 4.5 deg castor and the front seems to just not want to turn in at all.

once i get 1/2 way through corner and mash the go pedal it does pull round and grip through but the turn in is shocking.

i'm also running 1.5 way lsd in the front that i dont think is helping.

any ones thoughts on if there is any alignment settings i can add /change.

Andrew
 
This Hot 4's / Whiteline article on "making your GSR handle" from 1998 still holds true:

http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/articles/RHA98_GSR_b.jpg

I would have thought the principles would be the same for an Evo III, even if the GSR parts listed aren't compatible with an Evo II? (Don't know if they are or not)

All of the parts mentioned in it are still available from the Whiteline catalogue, although they don't seem to have anyything for an Evo III, let alone a II ?

http://www.whiteline.com.au/search.php
 
with that type of diff in the front it should help turn in, you may just need to adjust how you drive it. think of it as more of a front wheel drive.

mine also will not turn in very well off the power(nor does any other evo I have driven with an aggressive front lsd, but with a little amount of throttle it should tuck the nose in and pull the rest of the car through.

you may find you have to brake a little harder and be going a little slower at initial turn in, but then you can put your foot down(not all the way) and start using the pedal to steer the car.

It took me a while to get used too but now it feels pretty natural.

at winton in the 8 at evonats on some corners I had my foot right in prior to the apex and let it pull me through the corner.
 
Dougmo has got it in one, the LSD in the front makes them a bit of a pig to drive, and they will induce turn-in understeer (expecially with the RS rear mech diff). You will need to be on the power to make them turn, this means that you really need to be 'Slow in fast out'.. so as George said, sacrifice a bit of entry speed for the extra grip and drive away from the apex.

It can feel a bit strange at first and you need to be fairly committed to make it work propperly..

The other big question.. what tyres are on it? that will make a difference.

This is a quick example of what I mean..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz4N80Dwf9c
Im trying to keep on the power at or just before the apex... not a great example as the there isnt many slow to medium speed corners....
 
hey cheers for the quick replys.

yeah rear sway bars are upgraded items already.

yeah i pretty much drive it like a fwd, I try to accel before the apex almost at times as i have to, to make it snap round. Ive had some one follow and they have said once on the gas big time it rips round.

i guess im just frustrated following other cars who can enter alot faster into a corner then carry more speed.

im not talking crazy/stupid speeds but i guess i came from a rwd s15 which i feel entry and mid corner was better.

im just too chicken to come into corners in the evo and really throw it in.

i guess i was hopping for some one to say more castor and camber would help.


tyres im running a re001, bridgestones they are ok ish but are only 215 wide.

i'm not sure on my toe setup i think there isnt much at all.

i think im just in need of a more agressive alignment to be honest, cause i did tell the aligner i wanted to make the tyres last, but looking a tthe wear rates the diffs/power are chewing out the tyres anyway only done a bout 5000kms and they are over 1/2 warn almost 3/4.


any way enough for tonight, had a few to many beers and need some sleep.

cheers
Andrew
 
i think you definately need more front camber i would run at least -2deg currently running -2.75deg on my car with adjustable camber plates,i run front toe at zero.also increased castor will help,but the nature of your diff will mean you not going to get the turn in you want but you will get better on power grip.as suggested earlier toe out at the rear will make the rear more lively, what rear diff are running??

sounds like you will have to adjust your corner entry style to force the front online by weighting up the front and getting the rear moving to point the front in and power through almost forcing the car to turn in

proper alignment and more camber and castor will help you get on the power earlier and reduce the understeer also have you tried 225 tyres?

post your full suspension spec i.e dampers,spring rates,top mounts,front and rear diff specs might help
 
I would agree my driving stlye has had to change and is still changing. It's been a big learning curve.

specs
lowered springs - i think king springs (not 100% sure)
koni adjustable shocks all round
whiteline rear sway bar
whiteline strut braces from and rear
whiteline castor / anti lift bushes
KAAZ 1.5 way diff in the front
kaaz 1.5 way in the rear

to put the car into perspective today has been the first cold morning in a week (25 deg)

so turned it into a wide corner on the way to work and mashed the pedal and slid the whole thing with 1/2 turn op loc :D
so its slightly tail happy but its also because the amount of power.


i think im gonna save up and try and get some of those adjustable camber/castor tops
 
The suggestion from Whiteline is to fit a camber kit to the REAR and use:

Camber: -0.75

Toe Out: 2.00mm (Both sides)

Apparently this helps "unsettle" the back of the car on initial turn in, for better response, similar the to back end of a RWD "stepping out" slightly, and then hold the line much better through the corner.

The camber also helps prevent throttle off oversteer, which the heavy duty rear swaybar can cause without it set.
 
i think you will be better off saving up and getting a decent coilover set,at least that way you will have the ride height adjustability and most kits come with the camber plates so you will be able to tune ride height and damping force around the cars characteristics.

out of intrest are there top mounts available in OZ that allow both camber and castor adjustment
 
215/45/17 is the tyre size
32-34psi is the pressure

yeah i was looking into noltecs but couldnt find anymore for sale and got told to lookinto kmac but havnt got round to finding a kmac price or part number.

Didnt really want to go down the track of getting coil overs etc espcially if i dont have to.
 
GROOV3 said:
215/45/17 is the tyre size
32-34psi is the pressure

yeah i was looking into noltecs but couldnt find anymore for sale and got told to lookinto kmac but havnt got round to finding a kmac price or part number.

Didnt really want to go down the track of getting coil overs etc espcially if i dont have to.
Click to expand...
Kmac are still around they just moved factory 2 streets from there old join, as for noltec ask Del he's giot a guy at noltec and orders quite a lot for track heads & at a great price.
 
I run 33psi in my fronts and 29psi in my rear tyres, I found that the lower tyre pressure in the rear helped the car to turn in when I was having similar issues before I swapped to the Evo 2/3 front suspension. Still running those pressures now and turn-in and mid corner grip is awesome. Also MLR recommends a very similar tyre pressure for our cars. With your lower profile tyres I'd try out 34-35 front and 30-31 rear.
 

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