Engineering our cars!
- Thread starter 3zercrowd
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iluszn
Well-Known Member
EvoPwr | Gianni
You can fit a factory option motor to your car ie; cc gsr chasis came out with the 4g63 (In the evo) thus if you fit one up you can simply put on the forms "Factory optional motor".
Also i think if you are going within a few hundred cc of factory its ok aswell but its the factory option motor that allows it to be fitted without the need of an engineers certificate.
You can fit a factory option motor to your car ie; cc gsr chasis came out with the 4g63 (In the evo) thus if you fit one up you can simply put on the forms "Factory optional motor".
Also i think if you are going within a few hundred cc of factory its ok aswell but its the factory option motor that allows it to be fitted without the need of an engineers certificate.
Alex, Im surprised they let you fit the 4G63T in the coupe without an engineer certificate because it definitely wasnt an option for the coupe in this country and it uses different engine mounts :lol:
Goes to show how different state laws are, however the national Code of Practice for Light Vehicle modifications, if adopted by every state, will mean you have to undergo engineering.
Boostboy, if an officer has reasonable grounds to believe something is wrong he cannot issue a fine to you but only direct you for inspection - there is nothing wrong with the system with that. He CAN however issue a fine to you if you have a blatantly obvious defect like shitty tyres, low ride height, pod filter, engine induction changes, loud exhaust etc. If you produce an emissions report when puilled over, it will cover the induction changes and pod filter as long as those changes are noted in your engineers report. It still wont cover you however for the shitty tyres, low ride height and loud exhaust, therefore the initial fine will still stand and you will still be directed to go for inspection to have the defects cleared. I dont know if you have consulted an engineer before or not, but I suggest you do so. Obtain the DOTARS data sheet for your car that specifies OEM and minimal ride height and keep it in the car with you.
Here's the DOTARS vehicle Data Sheet for a CC coupe when first complied in Australia. It specifies minimum ride height. Every car complied in Australia will have a similar sheet. As long as your car isnt lower than the mm specified from hub centre to top of your wheel arch you are fine. You can whip this paper out if pulled over again and hand the Police Officer a gold-plated tape measure to ask him to measure it. Dont ever accept a fine if you are 100% confident of being legit, have a good engineer and have done things the right way. The system, if you know how to use it and get the information you need, will set you free.
Goes to show how different state laws are, however the national Code of Practice for Light Vehicle modifications, if adopted by every state, will mean you have to undergo engineering.
Boostboy, if an officer has reasonable grounds to believe something is wrong he cannot issue a fine to you but only direct you for inspection - there is nothing wrong with the system with that. He CAN however issue a fine to you if you have a blatantly obvious defect like shitty tyres, low ride height, pod filter, engine induction changes, loud exhaust etc. If you produce an emissions report when puilled over, it will cover the induction changes and pod filter as long as those changes are noted in your engineers report. It still wont cover you however for the shitty tyres, low ride height and loud exhaust, therefore the initial fine will still stand and you will still be directed to go for inspection to have the defects cleared. I dont know if you have consulted an engineer before or not, but I suggest you do so. Obtain the DOTARS data sheet for your car that specifies OEM and minimal ride height and keep it in the car with you.
Here's the DOTARS vehicle Data Sheet for a CC coupe when first complied in Australia. It specifies minimum ride height. Every car complied in Australia will have a similar sheet. As long as your car isnt lower than the mm specified from hub centre to top of your wheel arch you are fine. You can whip this paper out if pulled over again and hand the Police Officer a gold-plated tape measure to ask him to measure it. Dont ever accept a fine if you are 100% confident of being legit, have a good engineer and have done things the right way. The system, if you know how to use it and get the information you need, will set you free.
boostboy76
Member
...and guess how much it costs to take your car to Regency - about $200
So it's a fine by any other definition.
iluszn
Well-Known Member
Evo-00x. The minimum heights on these sheets, just to confirm, is that unladen ie; all oils, fuel etc. no passengers/driver? Or is that with all passengers? I have been done once for a car to low and they wouldnt let us out of the car for them to measure it.
Dean
Member
Just my 2 cents.
The worst thing about all of this is that, no matter what, it seems as though we can get defected regardless, dependent on the officer.
If we have outlined rules regarding modifications to our vehicles, i.e. ADR regulations, it just doesnt make sense.
To me it seems as though there is a missing link between the police force and the ADR.
I wish they would put further money into police education rather than allowing them to take the law into their own hands, as its just leaving all of us confused.
The worst thing about all of this is that, no matter what, it seems as though we can get defected regardless, dependent on the officer.
If we have outlined rules regarding modifications to our vehicles, i.e. ADR regulations, it just doesnt make sense.
To me it seems as though there is a missing link between the police force and the ADR.
I wish they would put further money into police education rather than allowing them to take the law into their own hands, as its just leaving all of us confused.
boostboy76
Member
+10
The point I was trying to make the whole time (obviously nowhere nearly as clearly as you!)
FYI. In Adelaide, if you get defected, remove the mods, go to Regency and pass then put your mods back on and get caught SAPOL is now fining people for "re-offending"! So yes, there are actual fines here for getting the car cleared then putting the good stuff back on.
boostboy76
Member
...and after your car's been defected once, it's "tagged" on the police vehicle database as such.
That way the coppers know which vehicles have recently been through Regency, and therefore which cars to pull over & check to see if the defected parts have been put back on
That way the coppers know which vehicles have recently been through Regency, and therefore which cars to pull over & check to see if the defected parts have been put back on
I laugh everytime somebody asks this question about engineering our modified cars here in Victoria. Some people say "you DON'T have to engineer it" - whilst others say "you DO need to engineer it".
My suggestion to ANYBODY who is looking to undertake any form of vehicle modification that they feel will require some sort of certification is to contact a Vicroads VASS representative. Do NOT rely on what people on this or other forums say. If you get pulled over and fined, or worse still are involved in an accident and it is discovered that your vehicle is in any way modified/unroadworthy - the authorities are not going to accept the excuse that "So-and-so from my forum told me certification to ensure my car was legal to drive on our roads was not required". Sorry son - you're out of luck.
If you want to be 110% confident that what you are driving is legal then get the engineer's report. I did and he tested everything from exhaust noise, emissions and ensured that the vehicle drove, handled and braked to his satisfaction. He reviewed the welds, the welding certification and stat-dec from the guy who welded my vehicle up then he signed it off and I was free to drive it on the roads. If an officer of the law did decide that my vehicle was unroadworthy I had solid grounds to dispute it. I had a certificate to present to my insurance company so that if anything did happen I was not going to get caught out for trying to sneak shifty's past them ("I swear this car was AWD and had a bigger engine when I purchased it - what do you mean that's not how it came from the factory... can I prove that my modifications did not cause the accident in which I was involved by changing the behaviour of the vehicle... how did the welded in crossmember fall out from the underneath the body - my mate told me his gasless mig welding was perfect...?")
Please refer to the attached Vicroads link:
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/SafetyAndRules/SaferVehicles/LicensedVehicleTesters/VehicleAssessmentSignatoryScheme.htm
Pay particular attention to this phrase:
"The Vehicle Assessment Signatory Scheme (VASS) aims to ensure all modified, imported and individually constructed vehicles meet construction and safety standards. If you're thinking about building your own vehicle (i.e. an individually constructed vehicle), discuss your plan with a VASS signatory first."
Did you read the words and phrase "ensure", "modified" and "meet construction and safety standards"...? Do you understand what they mean?
Then review this link:
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/DD1475EE-2182-4430-A701-1B5E1F712195/0/VASSListforpublication14Oct2010.pdf
In summary - do your homework and ask the right people the right questions. It might cost you to have an engineer's certificate done, but if you are going to do your conversion properly then you should factor this into the budget of your project.
My suggestion to ANYBODY who is looking to undertake any form of vehicle modification that they feel will require some sort of certification is to contact a Vicroads VASS representative. Do NOT rely on what people on this or other forums say. If you get pulled over and fined, or worse still are involved in an accident and it is discovered that your vehicle is in any way modified/unroadworthy - the authorities are not going to accept the excuse that "So-and-so from my forum told me certification to ensure my car was legal to drive on our roads was not required". Sorry son - you're out of luck.
If you want to be 110% confident that what you are driving is legal then get the engineer's report. I did and he tested everything from exhaust noise, emissions and ensured that the vehicle drove, handled and braked to his satisfaction. He reviewed the welds, the welding certification and stat-dec from the guy who welded my vehicle up then he signed it off and I was free to drive it on the roads. If an officer of the law did decide that my vehicle was unroadworthy I had solid grounds to dispute it. I had a certificate to present to my insurance company so that if anything did happen I was not going to get caught out for trying to sneak shifty's past them ("I swear this car was AWD and had a bigger engine when I purchased it - what do you mean that's not how it came from the factory... can I prove that my modifications did not cause the accident in which I was involved by changing the behaviour of the vehicle... how did the welded in crossmember fall out from the underneath the body - my mate told me his gasless mig welding was perfect...?")
Please refer to the attached Vicroads link:
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/SafetyAndRules/SaferVehicles/LicensedVehicleTesters/VehicleAssessmentSignatoryScheme.htm
Pay particular attention to this phrase:
"The Vehicle Assessment Signatory Scheme (VASS) aims to ensure all modified, imported and individually constructed vehicles meet construction and safety standards. If you're thinking about building your own vehicle (i.e. an individually constructed vehicle), discuss your plan with a VASS signatory first."
Did you read the words and phrase "ensure", "modified" and "meet construction and safety standards"...? Do you understand what they mean?
Then review this link:
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/DD1475EE-2182-4430-A701-1B5E1F712195/0/VASSListforpublication14Oct2010.pdf
In summary - do your homework and ask the right people the right questions. It might cost you to have an engineer's certificate done, but if you are going to do your conversion properly then you should factor this into the budget of your project.
Entaran
Well-Known Member
I would love the details of a Victorian VASS signatory who won't sniff derisively when I talk to him about engineering the VR4.
Most VASS dudes couldn't give two shits about signing off on our prides and joy, they only want to work on kit cars and heavy truck mass management shit.
Most VASS dudes couldn't give two shits about signing off on our prides and joy, they only want to work on kit cars and heavy truck mass management shit.
