Looking for a 4G63 to rebuild.

[GeoKez]

Good weekend, project moving right along. Things that still need doing:

Design and construct the hot side IC plumbing.
IC mounting brackets
Fitment of the oil cooler
Swap out old diff for VLSD

Should be ready for a tune after that lot.

 

[DOUGMO]

looks great George!

 

[EVOCPE]

Keep up the good work

Those spark leads look familiar

BTW whats with the cold side piping all curved??

 

[GeoKez]

Thanks George!

Keep up the good work

Those spark leads look familiar

BTW whats with the cold side piping all curved??

Yep Didn't sit right on Brian's car, so we came to an arrangement. The cold side pipework will look familiar to the Perth lads no doubt, has come off a car that did the rounds. Why it's shaped like it is..... no idea. But if you think that maybe inefficient...... wait 'till you see the hot side!!!

 

[4piknup]

Obviously didnt have any straight pipe in stock. Lol

 

[GeoKez]

Well, we got a start and an idle. Need to adjust the fuel/ign map a bit more to be able to safely run it in but so far so good.

Only issue is a horrible sounding noise from the engine near the idler pulley area. Funny thing is, it goes away when you take the timing belt cover (lower) off. It's really bizarre. When it happens it's sounds really metallic and bad, but when you take the timing cover off and start it again to try and track it down, it never does it. :wacko: Anyways, at this stage the rear diff has been swapped to the 3.909 and a Brian special strengthened box section has been cleaned up and installed.

 

[BMGTZ]

are you using Fidanza timing gears george? have a look at the timing bel cover and see if the little bolts ahve been rubbing on the inside

 

[GeoKez]

Have checked all of that mate. There was not much gap between the tensioner body and the lever that it pushes against (you know...... that bit....). I adjusted that last night to a bigger gap (~4.5mm) so I'll see if that was it.

I was defiantly metal on metal thou, not plastic on metal. sound was faster than the valve train spins, more like the speed of an idler pulley, that's why I started looking there. If it comes back, I'll try and record it.

BTW, I found your cat Brian, check the engine bay picture on the $2000 **** bucket posted today in the FS section. He's all curled up round the intake mani!!

 

[evo-gsr]

the cat you mention looks like it been chopped up...so may not be any good to anyone now!!

 

[BMGTZ]

mate that looks like my cat.....just cant trust jack with any pussy. just look where he left it.....how can the pole cat eat polish sausage now!! looks half starved.....but then it is a rumour that jack hasnt been slipping the pussy much sausage for a while

 

[GeoKez]

Well, been a slow slog with not much to do.

Clive's EVO VI dipstick and tube arrived yesterday (Thanks mate!! ), so with the quick addition of a bracket, it's new home is in a GVR4 block. It's actually suits really well and the old mounting tab serves perfectly as a spring retainer to pop the stick back in on those nasty little over boost occasions.

The mystery noise hasn't come back yet, although still running without front timing belt cover, will put it back on when it's tuned. My feeling was that it was the tensioner arm banging on the tensioner body. This has been reset and the noise is gone.

Plumbing has been finalised and is a bit of a compromise, intercooler plumbing is longer and 'bendier' than what I would like. That said, boost lag with the small turbo doesn't seem to be an issue at all, very quick spool times. The graph in the pictures shows a 2nd gear pull with pretty good boost rate, and I didn't even really stand on it, and ignition timing is conservative as Im still yet to get it on the dyno.

Speaking of which, Dyno is booked for the 18th, and since tuners willing to work on the Haltech systems are few and far between, I've opted to tune myself with one of the Race Torque guy's babysitting me. Hopefully the $100 spent with High Performance Academy will pay off......... :unsure:

 

[GeoKez]

Jack, just some pictures to show you the difference in the type of tuning methods, particularly the way that load is represented, from our discussions. There's not really a point, but I think it's interesting none the less, and I'm also wondering if it's why it has been hard to find someone who understands the haltechs.

Base Ignition table for an EVO IX (it's a conservative map so don't worry too much about the actual cell values) as represented on a typical haltech page. Load is based on RPM and mani pressure, compared to the evoscan table basing load on g/s through the MAF (I'm guessing?) and RPM


This table is the chosen method of mine for the fuel map. RPM and mani pressure for the load and the cell value is the VE calculation. I don't know if any way is better than the other, and they all end up producing the same outcome, this was just the way I started so have got use to it. The only other option I have with my ECU is to change the VE calc and just put injection time (ms), but that page looks daunting.....


Is the evoscan software free to download? I might grab it just to have a play.

 

[4piknup]

Hmmm. Its all a learning curve for me.
Evoscan and ecuflash. One is paid the other is licensed by the cable that you buy to talk to the ecu, so its free to play with

 

[GeoKez]

Well, got some dyno time today. Mixed results but overall I'm happy enough with progress so far, and I say that based on I still have a way to go to get what I want.

The best part of today was I got to sit next to an experienced tuner in the car on the dyno and push the buttons with him interpretating the results. An absolute must do for anyone serious about understanding what's going on when you 'tune' your car. It was an awesome experience and one which will stay with me for a long time.

Anyway, the results for the car didn't give me nearly as much joy. The engine build must have been ok as it held together and no issues with the mechanicals. But all the 'don't have enough money for that' has basically cost me in the hp I wanted, and with a few things that I over looked the overall results were fairly poor but somewhat expected.

At the end of tuning the AFR the power run gave 125hp 4000 @ 18psi and full hp of 270 @ 5500. Max torque was 371nm @ 4400rpm. Power and torque dropped quickly after 5500rpm which is the point when the base ignition map starts ripping the timing out for safety. This was to be expected, so the next step was to start upping the timing to MBT, but this was where the lack of attention to detail came in to bite me. Crankcase pressure was the first failing, the standard vents as I was running are woefully inadequate and hence the dipstick removed itself from its retaining equipment and made friends with the floor. That was the result of adding a mere 2* after 4500rpm, although it yielded an added 16hp at that rpm/load. There is a lot of power and a swag of torque hiding in the reduced timing up top but it will need to wait until I sort these ****** little issues out (which should have been delt with from the start, but......). The 2.5inch exaust was also showing signs of robbing top end, not to mention the obvious issue of the TD05 16.

I need to learn more about the Haltech to find if there are some secrets to getting the turbo on a bit earlier, 4000 until full 20psi, but given the small turbo size for the motor, I'm confident it can spool faster with better tuning. Exaust cam timing advance me thinks, but will research further and list some ideas ready for the next dyno run.

So, all the potential is there, I just need to start doing all the little things better. None the less she pulls harder than the 1.8 so I'm happy enough to give it a run at the McRae on Sunday, and we have dealt with the crankcase venting issue by way of extra fittings and a catch can so if things go ok on the first few runs, I might even screw a few degrees in up top.

More to come

 

[RocksolidGVR4]

Good to hear about your dyno run today, sounds like you had an interesting day.

Took my galant for a drive today for the first time in about 3 or so years and surprisingly ran extremely well
besides the gear box syncros. Ill be booking it in for a tune in the next couple of weeks just have to
decide who ill take it to.

Oh and I havent talked to my brother about the alloy welding yet but ill let you know when I do.

 

[4piknup]

Re alloy welding. Im about to buy a roll of ali mig wire for my mig. I think its electrode negative opposite to normal mig and run argon. May need a teflon liner and a knurled wire feed roller (like gasless).

Will let you know how it goes.

 

[EIII]

Progress is progress George.. I got my car 'tuned' by an expert in the field and it came away with ~280hp and the assurance my exhaust housing was too small and the car wouldn't make any more power. It also wouldn't idle, nearly stalled in traffic and was generally a pig. I was very disheartened after all the blood sweat and beers... Good on you for having the courage to tackle it..

In short, flick me an email and I'll send you my current (ethanol) map to look over if ur interested.. There may be something small in the way of settings in there that may help?? I use Halwin v1.89, so D/L that in order to view if u don't have it. Not p/word protected so easy to mosey around my map..

On that, Ethanol may be a quick answer to your issues, E85 is on the pump now in WA at select locations (well, one location - for now..)


Cheers.

EDIT: I use injector timing for fuel (ms) - pretty simple...

 

[4piknup]

E85? Where in perth and how much per litre?

 

[GeoKez]

Howdy Ben, good to hear from you. Yeah they are certainly well off the numbers we are aiming for, but there is a few ponies to get yet with the current set up. Ignition and cam timing still need to be done, as stated above the timing map is still the base haltec EIII map, which is ultra conservative above 5K. Your right thou, the base is there to work from and that still has me excited. I would be very interested to see your map, I have halwin download here somewhere, I appreciate for the offer.

In other news, Brian has been kind enough to remind me of what an absolute pig of a race weekend we had, thanks Brian! Always rely on you to kick the crap out of a man down! All the little things which come out of the wash when you start giving a new build some curry. Not all bad, have learnt plenty, and most everything has a fix.

The biggest issue was the boost pipework not holding together, the pipe on the J pipe blew off every run and that sucked!! My cheap arse solutions letting me down, where I should have just done what everybody else does, buy the proper part. With that in mind, new J pipe is now installed and she works proper. Adding to this issue, thoughts are that the BOV is faulty or too small for the job, I looked at it last night and I don't think the compressed air from the 3.5KM of 2.5inch pipework is all getting out in time. It may also explain the funny brake pedal, on the gas then jump on the brake and it felt like it took some time for the booster to become effective, sort of all makes sense now. So that was ripped off and binned, new bigger BOV installed, and seriously contemplating adding a second, not nice jumping on the brake and having a hard pedal that does SFA for the first second.

Crankcase vents are working well now they are bigger, and no issues in that department. Brads gearbox and Brians diff all seem to be holding together for the time being. Except Brian's cat may actually be hiding in the diff, howling like a bitch on coast. With the ring's bedded some more, a few more ideas and no race meetings for a while, I might go back to the dyno and see if we can't get 350atw, I think that is a reasonable number to aim for. Then go buy Jamo's 20g and some E85 and start getting serious!!

Anyways, with a car that barely held together for a lap, and a brake pedal that 'just doesn't feel right', stickman and fatty go for a lap!



And some boost pipe explosions for your enjoyment.

 

[GeoKez]

Chipping away at the little teething problems. Took it to MC sprints on the weekend, and thankfully all the plumbing stayed together. YAY!! With boost plumbing in tact, a few other 'things' came to attention.

The first run, wet track, and I thought I had puff the magic dragon under the bonnet. Every time I got off the throttle, a big puff of white smoke came out the left side bonnet vent. That turned out to be a cracked dipstick tube. It had work hardened at the point where I migged a bracket to it, and i'm guessing just vibrations lead to a crack. End result was a nice squirt of oil on the dump pipe at off throttle.

That fixed it was out on to a drying track, where it became obvious to me again that I'm not a race car drivers *******! Pushing through just about everything, and the inability to get the back of the car to step out when I want it to. I really need to learn how to set this car up for me, Time maybe for some paid advice. Mechanically the motor feels OK, rings have bedded and it's got nice and quite. It is pulling hard and I got the turbo coming on faster with some lobe separation on the cams, seems to hold up boost till around 6000 before giving some up. Got some not so nice noises coming from the pass side carrier bearing, and left hand rear diff bearing is in tune with it.

Few more runs we might be ready to try and extract some more power