Niggling reassembly issues

[Entaran]

Ok so...

I ran the car until it was warm and then adjusted the base idle up a bit as the 272's like to basically blip the throttle and once it was off choke/upto temp it kept stalling.

That was a minor issue.

HOWEVER

It keeps spitting the tensioner off the alternator. I'm absolutely certain I put it back together the way it came off, and yet still it keeps popping that bolt out the top of the tensioner and making the alt/water pump belt loose as. This is an issue, anyone got ideas?

Also I have valve noise so ripping the rocker cover off again to make sure everything is as it should be, but otherwise seems rather successful?

I unfortunately don't have a timing light, but the engine is responsive as under throttle taps (not in gear).

Other thought I had is the engine sounds COMPLETELY different now, actually it sounds kinda truck like or like i've got an exhaust leak except I didn't touch the exhaust. Is this normal?

 

[EVO-00X]

Hmmm you sure your exhaust noise isnt related to the 'prick' spring not seating the valve in the valve seat properly on the exhaust side?

You might have a thread or two rooted in your long alternator bolt that stops it from winding that extraturn or two. Completely remove the bolt to check. I usually tighten up the 90' bolt a bit more than hand tight, then tighten the long bolt til I get the desired tension on the belt. Then tighten the 90' bolt to its fullest. All that time I hold down n the longbolt so itdoesnt pop out of the V-groove.

 

[Entaran]

I'll try that thanks The bolt is definately ok for thread.

 

[Entaran]

I'm going to be really really really pissed if a valve spring hasn't seated properly. I took a shitload of care putting those things in. But if it's the case I'm sure i know which one it is too. Nothing a bit of love with a screwdriver and a mallet can't fix. I am not pulling those cams back out again.

 

[Liberoz]

I'm going to be really really really pissed if a valve spring hasn't seated properly. I took a shitload of care putting those things in. But if it's the case I'm sure i know which one it is too. Nothing a bit of love with a screwdriver and a mallet can't fix. I am not pulling those cams back out again.

yeah fugg that if they are after market cams ? How did you find the true TDC?

 

[Entaran]

The engine was left in TDC, it's my understanding that if you're swapping camshafts in a fully assembled engine that you don't have to degree them in if they go in exactly the same place the last ones came out (AKA at TDC). This is what my mechanic said to me.

The timing on the engine is fine anyway, I'm leaning more towards an unseated valvespring than anything. See what happens. Don't have the motivation to pull it all apart again right now.

 

[Entaran]

Ok, so I think evo is right. Valve spring #1 exhaust side (closest to timing belt) looks a little bit too far foward it's also turned all my brand new oil black as hades so off to buy more oil tomorrow I think. Shortest oil life ever. The valve spring/valve is still retained in there, the question is can I bash the valve spring to where it should be without damaging anything or do I have to literally pull everything apart again just to align a single valve.

*sigh* This car definately ain't making it on sunday.

 

[bazeng]

Don't give up mate!

I'd pull it off myself to confirm that it is all good.

Did you end up finding the rod to suit the tensioner?
Maybe:

Have you ever removed a rocker off the valve w/o pulling the cams?

If so, try and do that and see if you have much play with that valve.

If you don't know how to pull the rocker off w/o removing the camshaft, turn the crank over so that the cam lobe on that valve is not loaded onto the valve/rocker, undo the cam caps (just lift it off so the cam caps, don't fully take em off...) for the cam that is sitting on the exhaust side so it starts to lift slightly and then you should have just enough room to slide the rocker arm off the valve.

Anyway, see if everything looks ok around that are.

Could you have possibly bent a valve?

Did you bleed/prime your lifters when you did the rest of the work?

I have been told that sometimes the lifter could stay pumped which in turns keeps the valve open more than it should which in turn allows a piston to kiss the valve...

OR could the valve have possibly clipped the opposing valve?? did you have 2 open at once?

Good luck Lorry!

 

[EVO-00X]

How much lift do the cams have and did you upgrade the valvesprings as well? or still using the stock valvesprings?

 

[VR-4Squid]

I had this prob with my alternator tensioner also, possibly the bracket is slightly bent, it's quite flimsy.

I cable tied the long bolt to the bracket and haven't had a problem with it since.

 

[rob323]

I just lean on the alternator tensioner bolt with a large flat blade screw driver to stop it popping out while tightening it up.
Another 2 hand job so you have to put your beer down.
I hope your "exhaust leak" isn't like the one a mate of mine had. We had worked on his motor over the span of a year, sorting out a lot of issues and fixing it all up.
Primed it for a good minute and then fired it up only to hear an exhaust leak type sound. Turned out the mongrel motor spun big end bearing on us :fuuuuu:.

 

[Entaran]

Squid: Thanks, Will do that with one of these bigass cable ties I have hanging around here.

Barry: In order...

Yes, but I ended up going with your other method of taking the entire tensioner and timing gear off. Did a lot of cleaning under there anyway, had a lot of residual grease and other crap from where the engine builder didn't wash properly.

Yes, replaced the lifters on it 2 weeks ago with that method

Valves look dead straight to me, but I'll have a better look. Is there a way to tell easily? Like if it bends 1.5 degrees it won't be noticeable by naked eye. It's not blowing smoke so the valve stem seals are still sealing which is the major reason I think the valves are still straight. A bent one will snap a valve stem seal in short order and the car will start blowing a boatload of oil smoke.

I removed the lifters, bled them, put them back in. I assembly lubed the shit out of the cam journals and lobes when I reassembled it then primed the car for 30 seconds (3x 10 second intervals) with a brand new load of 15w50 full synth. THEN I fired it up by putting the MPI fuse back in. There was TONS of oil in the rocker cover before I fired it, the lifters didn't make an ounce of noise on first start.

I'm fairly sure none of the valves touched eachother. When the springs were off (I did them ONE at a time) the combustion chambers were pressurised to 170psi courtesy my air compressor via a plasma cutter grade water/air separator, so I know there was no water in there either. During the spring changeover not even one of the valves dropped more than 6mm from fully closed with the engine at TDC. I was using a dial gauge to make sure of this while I was doing it. Kind of overkill but...

EVO: DKS2 272/272 from www.ffwdconnection.com
Valve springs are ffwd's Bee-mad's. Were previously stock with stock cams. Valves I think are new but it's possible I killed one. I just don't know how to figure out if one is bent or not if it's only very very very slightly bent but as I said above, there's no exhaust smoke so the stem seals are still sealing.
Taken from their website:
INTAKE

Max Valve Lift: .397"
Duration @ .050": 192 crank degrees
Centerline: 102 degrees

EXHAUST

Max Valve Lift: .379"
Duration @ .050": 192 crank degrees
Centerline: 102 degrees

at .050" tappet lift.

 

[Entaran]

Oh if it matters I also went from BP6ES to BP7ES in the service as I fully intend on boosting it rather soon.

 

[Entaran]

Also, after bringing the car upto temp last night, apart from the weird exhaust noise... OMG. With the new valve springs and cams just a very very light/quick stab of the throttle and it went from 1200rpm to like 5300rpm in the blink of an eye. RESPONSE MUCH?

 

[JiMi]

Also, after bringing the car upto temp last night, apart from the weird exhaust noise... OMG. With the new valve springs and cams just a very very light/quick stab of the throttle and it went from 1200rpm to like 5300rpm in the blink of an eye. RESPONSE MUCH?

i like the sound of that

 

[milkandoj]

I could lever the rocker arms off without loosening the cam caps, like how they do it on VFAQ for the secttion on cleaning your lifters.
Used a nice big flat head screw driver and sometimes a crow bar to lever against, you just pop them off.

At first you'll probably be thinking shit is this goign to hit me in the head, but they gon fly off, i got a good knack for it after the first two.
Might same you some time.


I had the same problem with the alternator to! A nice fat cable tie fixed mine to!

 

[Entaran]

Yeah I've done lifters a bunch of times w/o taking cams out. I know all about it thanks Got a full set of lifters down to a 30 minute job end to end.

Just organised some shiny stuff. Looks like my car's staying on stands till approx end of Jan. Will keep you all updated I bought myself xmas presents

 

[JiMi]

lol.. it all started with a couple of simple mods.. and ended in.... hehe

 

[bazeng]

I could lever the rocker arms off without loosening the cam caps, like how they do it on VFAQ for the secttion on cleaning your lifters.
Used a nice big flat head screw driver and sometimes a crow bar to lever against, you just pop them off.

At first you'll probably be thinking shit is this goign to hit me in the head, but they gon fly off, i got a good knack for it after the first two.
Might same you some time.


I had the same problem with the alternator to! A nice fat cable tie fixed mine to!

The only problem is you can end up scratching your retainers..

A good trick is to run a cable tie through the rocker arm and tie it to something so it doesn't go too far..

 

[CLuTZ]

Looks like my car's staying on stands till approx end of Jan. Will keep you all updated I bought myself xmas presents

What? I thought you were going to have it all back together for the cruise? :unsure: