O'ringed block

[BMGTZ]

Ive just stripped an engine which was rebuilt and only covered a fairly short distance before failing due to poor assembley.

the block has been o'ringed. I am asking opinions on a head gasket suitable for use with o'rings. the one that was on it looked to be nothing special and the guy said the builder {a shop since closed}told him the motor was good for 28 psi when run in. It didnt get to be run in!!!

the motor will see 20 maybe 25 boost, has an old t61 turbo and an ajustable comptuter will be used for tune.

suggestions please

 

[JSTYLE]

now adays you dont need to oring blocks for a 63t.. because the head gaskets are already oringed...

i would recommend a Cometic Headgasket .051 thou.. 40thou oversized.. they are $150.

alot of the racers use them and they are very good for very high boost.

Jon

 

[BMGTZ]

Thanks Jon,
as the block still has the o'rings there, if I remove them and not replace the do you think that gasket will cope with the slot left.
I was thinking of renewing them and using a good gasket as well however that may leave quite a lump to compress.

brian

 

[JSTYLE]

Thanks Jon,
as the block still has the o'rings there, if I remove them and not replace the do you think that gasket will cope with the slot left.
I was thinking of renewing them and using a good gasket as well however that may leave quite a lump to compress.

brian

Case by case it varies.. need to really take measurements etc... and go from there.. might be lucky enough to just beable to slap a new gasket on.

Jon

 

[steve]

Thanks Jon,
as the block still has the o'rings there, if I remove them and not replace the do you think that gasket will cope with the slot left.
I was thinking of renewing them and using a good gasket as well however that may leave quite a lump to compress.

brian

In my experience, it won't.

My block was o-ringed with a copper gasket when I bought it, but was leaking. Having heard so many horror stories about copper gaskets being a bitch to get a good seal with, I decided to put a Cometic HP in. We pulled the head and machined both surfaces perfectly flat, then I had o-rings made up to fill the grooves so they sat level with the surface. We had originally considered leaving them slightly proud, but decided against it as Cometic gaskets tend to need perfectly flat surfaces to seal against.

Anyway, it didn't work. It was fine for a few thousand kms, but then started using water again. Next time we pulled the head, the gasket had started leaking into the cylinders and hydrolocked the motor, bending two forged rods .. an expensive exercise :lol:

When the motor went back together, we o-ringed both the head and block, proper receiver grooves, and used a copper gasket. The guy who built my engine (Mick @ Mick's Motorsport) knows exactly what he's doing with them, anneals them himself (by hand!) and after 25000 kms (with the motor seeing 22psi daily, 440hp atw), it hasn't used a drop of water.

Are the standard gaskets on the early motors MLS like the evo 4+? If they're not, you might get away with using a stock gasket and the o-rings - I know of many Nissan motors using stock gaskets with o-rings running big boost for years without problems, but I've never seen a success story of MLS gaskets with o-rings.

Steve

 

[runuts]

Copper Head gaskets work great, as steve mentioned, it just takes someone with the correct knowledge of how to seal them. Its really no big job, just most places either dont understand them, or have little experience. And if ridgecrest still supply the same sealing instructions, its no wonder that they dont seal correctly.

 

[Entaran]

http://www.ffwdconnection.com/headgaskets.shtml

Scroll to bottom of page.

It's copper. It'll work.

 

[lozza]

Copper Head gaskets work great, as steve mentioned, it just takes someone with the correct knowledge of how to seal them. Its really no big job, just most places either dont understand them, or have little experience.

plus add in the perth factor which doubles your chances of someone farking it up...

brian, use an ML gasket if you are decking both block and head otherwise composite factory gasket with ARP's will be fine. plenty have gone well with factory and plenty failed with ML's and visa versa. most gasket faliures are blamed on brand X versus Y but its usually poor surface finish and/or improper torque and/or sequence.

cheers

 

[moi]

head lifting?

on the topic of headgaskets..... can you guys help me.

block and head not oringed but head is tested and machined each time.

on to my 3rd headgasket. 1st one was cometic metal, next one was permaseal metal, 3rd on car now is cometic metal. each time all is well for approx 2000kms then it starts pushing coolant into overflow bottle, fills overflow bottle up after about 8 runs down the drag strip on 25psi. I always use arp headstuds which i replace each time head is off/on again. starting to get annoying. whats going on?

 

[robevo]

Im guessing either you have detonation issues or the head studs arent tensioned properly.I have been running cometic for years and have never had a problem with it lifting.I used to run 45psi and a 100 shot of gas back in the day and it held just fine Do you spray hylomar on it before you put the head gasket on??
Like the above posts, copper is also fine as long as you get someone that knows what they are doing.

 

[moi]

headgasket

hmm, no idea if it detonates, it gets retuned each time it gets put back together again and it doesnt run much timing at all, 10 degrees at full load throughout rev range. no signs of detonation whenever the head is off. hylomar is used each time. possibly not tensioning arp studs properly or possibly block surface. will pull head off again soon to inspect and decide what to do.

 

[robevo]

Re: headgasket

hmm, no idea if it detonates, it gets retuned each time it gets put back together again and it doesnt run much timing at all, 10 degrees at full load throughout rev range. no signs of detonation whenever the head is off. hylomar is used each time. possibly not tensioning arp studs properly or possibly block surface. will pull head off again soon to inspect and decide what to do.

That sucks when you cant locate the problem :cry: Are you re tentioning the head after 1000k's or so??

 

[rob323]

Re: headgasket

hmm, no idea if it detonates, it gets retuned each time it gets put back together again and it doesnt run much timing at all, 10 degrees at full load throughout rev range. no signs of detonation whenever the head is off. hylomar is used each time. possibly not tensioning arp studs properly or possibly block surface. will pull head off again soon to inspect and decide what to do.

What car/ engine is it?
What engine management?

 

[DOUGMO]

check the block. doesnt matter how flat the head is if the block is not

 

[moi]

oring

each time we didnt retension the head after 1000kms.. didnt think that was necessary according to cometic instructions. will do it next time round. and if it happens again then block has to come out i guess.

car is a 1993 evo 1. rebuilt 4g63 with je pistons, scat rods, arp mainstuds etc. bc 280/280 cams/gears, hks valvesprings, gt30r, turbonetics deltagate, running autronic pnp.

 

[Entaran]

Er. You have to retension the ARP studs after 1000kms. It's in the install instructions.

Problem solved?