Rebuild time.

[Connor]

Hey guys,



I noticed that the RVR is lacking in the power department and seems to be blowing a lot of smoke after being stationary for a minute or more, so naturally I did a compression test these are my results:


Dry:
#1 - 133psi
#2 - 142psi
#3 - 72psi
#4 - 165psi

Wet:
#1 - 210psi
#2 - 174psi
#3 - 112psi
#4 - 213psi

Obviously showing that the engine is fairly worn.



I had originally planned on rebuilding it soon anyway but after being stuffed around with cams getting lost in transit from the USA I put it on the back burner.

I have just bought my first house so I won't be going fully forged like I had hoped but I will be using these pistons and rings http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251397248236?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 +.020", cometic HG to suit, timing belt kit, oil pump, water pump, ARP head studs and rod bolts, balance shaft eliminator kit + whatever needs seeing to in the bottom end. The top end will be getting new valve stem seals, decked, EVO VII springs, titanium retainers, BC 272 or kelfords if I can spare the coin + whatever else needs doing.

This will be my first engine build and I plan to do it all myself with exception of the machining of the block and head.


Basically what I am trying to ask is whether or not you guys think I should attempt this myself or not, I am fairly good with my hands/cars and I have done a few engine conversions on other cars before. Also I would like your opinions on the pistons/ring and what brands you recommend for HG, timing kit, oil pump/water pump etc.



Thanks

 

[Hyper_Mike]

This is the story of my life mate, exactly the same issue with my car, my comps not as bad though. Check my thread Smoking 4g63T in this forum. Sitting at the lights then take off, lotsa smoke. My turbo is leaking badly too so im replacing it. But still need to rebuild my head my rings seem ok though. Have you done a leak down test? Should help diagnose the smoke.

 

[vr401]

My short answer would be "easy"
That's if I am doing it. If you say you're fairly good go with it.
There is so many "how to" on internet that you could do it easily.
I would get the head machined by others and the bore also for oversized pistons. Also i would get them to do head including valve seats.
Everything else is easy.

 

[vr401]

Mike, are you still looking for a way to fit 16g on RVR?

 

[Django]

Grab the manual you can download it on the evo 1-3 forum, it's a sticky thread. Make sure to use loctite on the bolts for the elimination kit and you can even just spin the bearings further in the block to block off oil galleries. Any water pump that fits mate, don't worry about the brand, evo ones apparently don't fit, they are the same as UF Nimbus. Definitely get the shop to whack in the valves while it's getting the machine work. You'll also need a press to get the old pistons off the rods and replace them. Other than that mate, it's all common sense.

It'll need to be run in when it's all done and just make sure you re-tension head bolts at specified kms. Basically if you have an engine hoist, tools and a torque wrench and follow the steps in the manual you'll be sweet! GL mate I'm always for some-one saving some $$ doing their own cars.

 

[Hyper_Mike]

Yes mate im still looking to try and find what needs to be changed, i posted a pic of the turbo in my members ride thread yesterday I think. So it needs to be rotated and something else needs to be done with the FMIC piping?

 

[Connor]

This is the story of my life mate, exactly the same issue with my car, my comps not as bad though. Check my thread Smoking 4g63T in this forum. Sitting at the lights then take off, lotsa smoke. My turbo is leaking badly too so im replacing it. But still need to rebuild my head my rings seem ok though. Have you done a leak down test? Should help diagnose the smoke.

Yeah I knew when I bought it that it at least needed some head work done, I have read your thread a few times now. The worst thing is how embarrassing it is when you want to sit in the car at the shops with the A/C on and there is smoke billowing out the back.

As for a leak down test, I may as well do everything while it is apart so as to not to run into any other issues for a while. Even with these issues it has been a great car and I don't think I could sell it.

My short answer would be "easy"
That's if I am doing it. If you say you're fairly good go with it.
There is so many "how to" on internet that you could do it easily.
I would get the head machined by others and the bore also for oversized pistons. Also i would get them to do head including valve seats.
Everything else is easy.

Hey Mio,

I am excited about having a crack at it and as I said I will get all the machining down elsewhere, but as you said I should probably get the valves done as well.

Grab the manual you can download it on the evo 1-3 forum, it's a sticky thread. Make sure to use loctite on the bolts for the elimination kit and you can even just spin the bearings further in the block to block off oil galleries. Any water pump that fits mate, don't worry about the brand, evo ones apparently don't fit, they are the same as UF Nimbus. Definitely get the shop to whack in the valves while it's getting the machine work. You'll also need a press to get the old pistons off the rods and replace them. Other than that mate, it's all common sense.

It'll need to be run in when it's all done and just make sure you re-tension head bolts at specified kms. Basically if you have an engine hoist, tools and a torque wrench and follow the steps in the manual you'll be sweet! GL mate I'm always for some-one saving some $$ doing their own cars.

Hey Django,

I already have the eliminator kit with the bearings without the oil ports but thanks for the loctite advice. It seems to be the common consensus to do the valves at the same time so I will get it done as well.

I have everything except a hoist which I am picking up tomorrow, with the dollars saved I can finally finish the evo8 ecu install/tune or get a 20g .



Thanks guys, I feel very motivated now :thumbsup:

 

[4piknup]

I suggest david vizard book called engine blueprinting. Excellent book about building engines. Not all of it will bee relevant but its good.
It takes you through pulldown and inspection right through to assembly.
It has a build sheet in the back and tells you what to ask the machineshop to do.

You can do the head yourself. Put it intake ports up and put a bit of kero in each port. Mark the valves that leak and relap them till they dont leak. Give the ones that dont leak a light lap and repeat for the exhaust side.

 

[Benzo4gT]

Just think of it as big boy Lego! Make sure you get a good reputable place to do the machining. Watch out for some of those balance shaft eliminator kits as some don't have an oil groove on the stubby shaft and crap themselves after a

while. I simply cut mine off, welded it and cleaned it up.

I lapped my valves myself, but had stuffed valves so it was a complete waste of time. I'll get someone to do it for me for peace of mind.

All the best mate, it's a really rewarding thing to do, you can sit back and know that it was built by your own hands.

 

[vr401]

Yes mate im still looking to try and find what needs to be changed, i posted a pic of the turbo in my members ride thread yesterday I think. So it needs to be rotated and something else needs to be done with the FMIC piping?

Check your post mate

http://www.4gtuner.com/topic/22946-rvr-hyper-sports-gear-r/page-2#entry290124

 

[Connor]

What is the max boost you should run of the stock pistons? I have done a bit of searching and the US dsm guys are saying 450hp!!! I am a bit skeptical about that though.

 

[Benzo4gT]

450 is a big figure for stock item IMO. If the person before you has run a poor tune and detonated a bit or boosted the living balls out of the engine, the pistons would have to be affected in some way

even though not visible or detectable. Think about the supporting mods and also the cost of these mods in order to achieve that figure, buying a set of forged pistons and rods is relatively cheap considering how much it can help with

safety and raising the ceiling of the tune achievable with the build at a later date. Just my 2c

 

[Connor]

Yeah that figure seems high, I don't plan on making 450hp odd I am aiming for 230-250kwatw eventually.

 

[4piknup]

450 crank hp is somewhere near 250kwatw. What psi do we need for that? 20ish? I think its doable on oem pistons

 

[Connor]

450 crank hp is somewhere near 250kwatw. What psi do we need for that? 20ish? I think its doable on oem pistons

My bad, including drivetrain loss it is close to that figure. I guess they were stating crank hp and not whp.

I think that is doable on 20-22psi.

Should I get some ARP rods bolts or will the stock ones be okay?



Here is the list of parts that are here or on their way:


EVO 6 ecu
560cc evo 6 injectors
GFB Ge-force II
MTX-L wideband
Cometic top end kit
EVO 9 valve springs
Ferrea Titanium retainers
ARP head studs


The rest will have to wait until I get the engine out and get everything measured up.

How power does the stock clutch hold on these things? Can anyone recommend a good clutch that will hold upto or upwards of 250kw's?

 

[Benzo4gT]

My bad, including drivetrain loss it is close to that figure. I guess they were stating crank hp and not whp.

Ah! That makes sense.

 

[4piknup]

Sounds like a good build.
I have a for sale thread with evo10 3bar map sensors if you want one.

 

[evo-gsr]

I think you a playing a game of roulette pushing stock pistons to that level. It might be alright, but for how long?
A stock clutch probably wont like it either in my opinion.
I had an Exedy organic clutch on a 20g with around 220kw and it lasted 14000 ks before it would start slipping in 3rd gear at anything over 5000rpm.

 

[vr401]

560cc injectors are small for that power. You'll push them rigth up to max duty cycle.
My evo 7 makes 185awkw and it goes to around 80% duty cycle.

 

[Connor]

Okay well hopefully they haven't sent the injectors yet! I might get the ID1000's that are for sale on here.