Street Performance

[BobWrinkle]

Just heard back from ESP,

My clutch is fucked -- Expected

My turbo is absolutely fucked -- Was only 6 months since rebuild :shock:

So now the quesiton is:

Is the Big 16G the best street turbo??

 

[jett]

As good as mitsu turbo's are - you are never going to get the performance of a ball bearing one. If you still want street drivability then go for a Garrett GT2871R or similar. They are ~350HP turbo but with dual ball bearings will will spool just as fast (if not faster) than a sleeve bearing one but you can run the higher boost and more importantly the air flow rate of a larger turbo. In my opinion the GT30 series are too big for street application on a 4G63...

Yeah there is the disadvantage of having to modify the exhaust manifold, dump pipe, boost piping etc. but definitely worth it. It depends on your budget and how far you want to go with the upgrade.

 

[BobWrinkle]

I have to get a new dump anyway, and i want to get a new mani.

I don't want to buy another turbo.

I want a big fat boost hit.

Is this all possible with the 2871R?

 

[jett]

A brand new turbo is always gonna be a more reliable option than a rebuilt one - yeah i know you can buy a new 16g but not many people do. So if you don't abuse it then it should last a long time.

Depending on the actual trim you get on the GT2871R (there are a number of different exhaust and compressor housing options) - peak efficiency is between 10 and 22psi. This is about 75% which is somewhat higher than that of the mitsu turbos i have seen.

For example compare this to the big 16g compressor map - its peak efficiency is only 70% and this is between about 3 and 14 psi.

Basically what this means is that the turbo is blowing cooler air and more of it when compared to a mitsu turbo of a similar size at the same boost level - this combined with a ball bearing instead of the sleeve means that you can have more boost and air flow without loss of spool time.

All it really comes down to is about 15 years of turbo design research and the fact that garrett is a dedicated turbo manufacturer.

Have a look here at the GT2871R specs

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Turbochargers/GT28/GT2871R_743347_1.htm

 

[ZedEx]

As good as mitsu turbo's are - you are never going to get the performance of a ball bearing one. If you still want street drivability then go for a Garrett GT2871R or similar. They are ~350HP turbo but with dual ball bearings will will spool just as fast (if not faster) than a sleeve bearing one but you can run the higher boost and more importantly the air flow rate of a larger turbo. In my opinion the GT30 series are too big for street application on a 4G63...

Yeah there is the disadvantage of having to modify the exhaust manifold, dump pipe, boost piping etc. but definitely worth it. It depends on your budget and how far you want to go with the upgrade.

Have you owned a 4g63 with a GT30R? No...? Well don't make assumptions. I find the GT30R VERY streetable.

 

[matress]

most people say that the 16G is the ultimate street turbo on a Mitsi...
If you are looking for something bigger, have you thought about the TD05H-20G from Gtpumps? Costs about $1100 full rebuilt (send in your turbo).
Otherwise, there are plenty of options in the USA (www.slowboyracing.com is one) but expect to pay almost US$300 to get the turbo shipped out here. Mind you, they are a lot cheaper, and even with shipping factored in, usually it will still work out cheaper than buying the same turbo locally.
A 50-trim is considered the next step up from a Big 16G. They come in Mitsi bolt-on form or with a T3 flange. The bolt on one will fit directly to your stock manifold and downpipe.

 

[jett]

Have you owned a 4g63 with a GT30R? No...? Well don't make assumptions. I find the GT30R VERY streetable.

Easy mate - its my opinion i'm entitled to it - if you disagree then just say so no need to get so worked up about it... :roll: Its no skin of your back if he gets a GT28 or a GT30 or even a IHI turbo . Ease up hey....

Turbo size is a personal choice and will depend primarily on how you drive and what other mods you have.

 

[BobWrinkle]

Ok well to acompany it will be fuel setup with 560 injectors, and 3" zorst

Oh and I drive like a nob 24/7 :twisted: hence the street performance goal.

 

[matress]

one thing you may want to keep in mind is power band...

with stock cams, valve springs, etc. you probably won't be revving past 6500 - 7000rpm. you don't want a turbo that would need you to rev to 8000rpm to get a decent power band out of it.

the only thing is "lag"
a lot of people forget that if you drop down a gear, your revs will increase and your turbo will come on boost, although, the bigger the turbo, the longer it will take to build boost again after a gear change.

 

[tharaka]

bob:
if you're going to upgrade, make sure its a ball bearing one
and chances are you'll need bigger than 560cc injectors

 

[ZedEx]

Have you owned a 4g63 with a GT30R? No...? Well don't make assumptions. I find the GT30R VERY streetable.

Easy mate - its my opinion i'm entitled to it - if you disagree then just say so no need to get so worked up about it... :roll: Its no skin of your back if he gets a GT28 or a GT30 or even a IHI turbo . Ease up hey....

Turbo size is a personal choice and will depend primarily on how you drive and what other mods you have.

I'm just sick of people with hear say opinions. If you have had one on your car and experienced it personally its different but unless you have its not really your place to make comments in regard to its performance.

The GT30R builds ~6psi (prolly more as i just found i got a big intake leak) by 3.2k. The air flow of the GT30R @ 6psi is prolly equivalent to ~9psi on a 16G. This is on stock cams. Once it states to boost it then pulls so hard and build boost so quickly you see full boost in no time at all.

I think really highly off the turbo as a street and race turbo.

 

[CLuTZ]

In my opinion the GT30 series are too big for street application on a 4G63...

Well don't make assumptions. I find the GT30R VERY streetable.

I'd have to agree there, its a perfect balance of lag and power.........

 

[tharaka]

running a gt30 with 272/272 cams on a stock(chipped) ecu probably isnt a good idea is it?

 

[ZedEx]

I'm running a GT30R on a chipped ECU... Have stock cams at the moment and once i see what times can be run on the stock cams i will be going to larger profile cams. I don't see an issue with this.

 

[tharaka]

I'm running a GT30R on a chipped ECU... Have stock cams at the moment and once i see what times can be run on the stock cams i will be going to larger profile cams. I don't see an issue with this.

how do you tune it?

 

[ZedEx]

VR-4-PLAY gives me a hands he gets the Wideband and the datalogger to pick up knock using these two tools we tune it that way. I also have an Ostrich so i can change my mapping on the fly i don't have to continually re burn chips.

 

[tharaka]

VR-4-PLAY gives me a hands he gets the Wideband and the datalogger to pick up knock using these two tools we tune it that way. I also have an Ostrich so i can change my mapping on the fly i don't have to continually re burn chips.

ah fair enough
must be handy to have those tools at your disposal

im going to just have to use an safc and sitc

 

[ZedEx]

VR-4-PLAY gives me a hands he gets the Wideband and the datalogger to pick up knock using these two tools we tune it that way. I also have an Ostrich so i can change my mapping on the fly i don't have to continually re burn chips.

ah fair enough
must be handy to have those tools at your disposal

im going to just have to use an safc and sitc

The wideband isn't exactly at my 'disposal' but Dave can get ahold off it for me. You can always hire a little dyno time and do a dyno run with stock map and get them to display your a/f ratio on the graph. You can then use this when getting some one to burn a chip for you to try get the mapping close to what you require. Get yourself a datalogger to check for knock. This will work as well as an SAFC/SITC and is all done within the factory ECU.

Just a thought

 

[Entaran]

Have you owned a 4g63 with a GT30R? No...? Well don't make assumptions. I find the GT30R VERY streetable.

Easy mate - its my opinion i'm entitled to it - if you disagree then just say so no need to get so worked up about it... :roll: Its no skin of your back if he gets a GT28 or a GT30 or even a IHI turbo . Ease up hey....

Turbo size is a personal choice and will depend primarily on how you drive and what other mods you have.

I'm just sick of people with hear say opinions. If you have had one on your car and experienced it personally its different but unless you have its not really your place to make comments in regard to its performance.

The GT30R builds ~6psi (prolly more as i just found i got a big intake leak) by 3.2k. The air flow of the GT30R @ 6psi is prolly equivalent to ~9psi on a 16G. This is on stock cams. Once it states to boost it then pulls so hard and build boost so quickly you see full boost in no time at all.

I think really highly off the turbo as a street and race turbo.

9 psi on a 16g is barely noticeable. 3200 rpm is probably too far up the rev range for "street" applications where most people would be lucky to see the high side of 5000 before changing a gear, unless driving in anger.

Track and strip side, 3200 rpm isn't an issue because you're swapping cogs on the better side of 7000, but for a pure STREET application, this is probably just a tad too high.

My opinion. Take it or leave it. Flame away.

 

[jett]

This is my point exactly - street driving can have many different meanings - but my defintion of street is having decent usable boost at 2500-3000 with half throttle. If you drive at higher RPM then go for the bigger turbo - but for insta boost at the expense of the ultimate drag MONSTER then go the GT28...