I don't under stand why top brand name companys like hks, ppg, greedy etc, ask such high prices for there gear, I know there top rated stuff, with lots time and effort making there gear, but if you were to sell 10 turbos $4000 each or sell 50 at $2000 each in the same time frame which would you choose, the likes of ppg gear sets how many blokes would be driving around here if they could have a ppg gearset in there cars for half the price, 7k I could never justify paying that this day and age, but 3-3500 you could. just having my winge time lol ok I'm over my self haha.
top brand name gear ( whine time lol )
- Thread starter boosted22
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i 100% do understand the time they put in as stated above, your missing my point of what I'm trying to say, times have change is all I'm saying try convince'n the missus to let ya spend 7000 on a gearbox or what ever is harder than trying for 3-3500.
try paying a team of engineers to build something for you that's up to those standards, then let us know how you go.
those companies specialise with QUALITY parts, not crap. there are plenty of companies to buy crap from if you'd like, just look on ebay. they focus selling to people such as yourself. top name brands are after a different portion of the market, that are willing to pay $ for quality parts that won't break so easy.
try designing an intake/exhaust system, and let us know how it goes against a HKS system.
those companies specialise with QUALITY parts, not crap. there are plenty of companies to buy crap from if you'd like, just look on ebay. they focus selling to people such as yourself. top name brands are after a different portion of the market, that are willing to pay $ for quality parts that won't break so easy.
try designing an intake/exhaust system, and let us know how it goes against a HKS system.
companies that spend countless hours and money in research and developement are hardly going to run themselves into the ground by under selling their own product.
problem is still that some company in china will copy it either way and you will get you PPG copy for 3.5k, minus the quaility.
problem is still that some company in china will copy it either way and you will get you PPG copy for 3.5k, minus the quaility.
Dean
Member
Exactly.
There's alot of background work that you don't see when you purchase a product.
R & D for companies like HKS etc is enormous. And they're not just developed to look like they're going to do what they're meant to, but they actually do it. Hence the price tag attached.
I remember watching a Import Performance DVD on Tomei R&D, and it was mind amazing to say the least. (will try find it on Youtube)
There's alot of background work that you don't see when you purchase a product.
R & D for companies like HKS etc is enormous. And they're not just developed to look like they're going to do what they're meant to, but they actually do it. Hence the price tag attached.
I remember watching a Import Performance DVD on Tomei R&D, and it was mind amazing to say the least. (will try find it on Youtube)
How would they run there companys down by under selling if there selling 3 times the amount of turbos, a $4000 greedy turbo or a $2000 Garrett turbo that does The same job, you can't say they haven't put the same amount research into there products. Im not trying to put down there products or asking them to sell there stuff for penuts just for blokes like me ( under payed lol ) or any of that crap or gonna have a debate on there time they put into there stuff, I'm just having a winge to all the other average joe blows out there like me lol.
Dean
Member
Many factors why. Costs of development, cost of goods sold, cost of labour. Also dependent on the size of the factory.boosted22 said:
Are you comparing apples with apples though?
Greddy make 'turbo kits' which are practically bolt on turbo upgrades, which incorporate most parts needed to install the turbo to your particular model (plenty of R&D involved there in itself). Whereas Garrett usually will only supply you with the turbo itself. Maybe that's why the price you have stated is so high?
lmao. does the same job? are you kidding?
you think they use the same bearings? the same profiles for the compressor and turbine wheels? same size housings?
as i said... THEY DO NOT WANT TO SELL 3 TIMES THE AMOUNT OF TURBOS!!!! or, they'd like to, but they're not even gonna break even if they were selling for that price/way below cost. Non-chinese made equiptment costs more.
maybe it's worth you doing some research before making these comments, as they are seemingly not very well researched.
how much do you think you could design and build a turbo for yourself? in australia? it'd cost you alot more then 4k if you designed and built it yourself/used no off the shelf parts other than maybe the bearings. but then you'd need to know about bearings, and buy the right ones, and that takes time. time is money.
you think they use the same bearings? the same profiles for the compressor and turbine wheels? same size housings?
as i said... THEY DO NOT WANT TO SELL 3 TIMES THE AMOUNT OF TURBOS!!!! or, they'd like to, but they're not even gonna break even if they were selling for that price/way below cost. Non-chinese made equiptment costs more.
maybe it's worth you doing some research before making these comments, as they are seemingly not very well researched.
how much do you think you could design and build a turbo for yourself? in australia? it'd cost you alot more then 4k if you designed and built it yourself/used no off the shelf parts other than maybe the bearings. but then you'd need to know about bearings, and buy the right ones, and that takes time. time is money.
also support is built into the pricing,
its almost a given that support for a "brand name" product will be far better than a cheaper alternative.
the supports costs are included in the product pricing
think of this,
10 turbos at 4k = 40k, say 20k profit 10 product items to support.
20 turbos at 2k = 40k and 20k profit, twice the products, twice the support, same profit.
support is a huge cost that people dont realise, apart from the people paying the money (usually people who can afford it)
its almost a given that support for a "brand name" product will be far better than a cheaper alternative.
the supports costs are included in the product pricing
think of this,
10 turbos at 4k = 40k, say 20k profit 10 product items to support.
20 turbos at 2k = 40k and 20k profit, twice the products, twice the support, same profit.
support is a huge cost that people dont realise, apart from the people paying the money (usually people who can afford it)
There probably isn't 100% markup on all items manufactured.
Some simple book-keeping:
Lets say the above said turbo costs $3000 (total) to manufacture.
Sell 10 units @ $4000 = $10,000 profit
Sell 50 units @ $2000 = $50,000 loss
When companies offload goods and services for a lower price than the manufacture cost, they go bankrupt.
Some simple book-keeping:
Lets say the above said turbo costs $3000 (total) to manufacture.
Sell 10 units @ $4000 = $10,000 profit
Sell 50 units @ $2000 = $50,000 loss
When companies offload goods and services for a lower price than the manufacture cost, they go bankrupt.
that's just the manufacturing even. There are an insane amount of hours to price a team of engineers to design the components to manufacture. Just as a ballpark figure... an assistant engineer costs $130/hr, and you'd need them, because your average person can't use the cad or cfd modelling required. then using those programs... they aren't cheap programs... computers to run high level programs... **** really hits the fan. but it's ok, there'll be 40 different chinese copies later. 
manufacturing needs to be quality tested. boxed, shipped, etc. is alot of $$$ involved.
manufacturing needs to be quality tested. boxed, shipped, etc. is alot of $$$ involved.
Does anyone know anyone consistently winning in their chosen field with cheap copies? Nope no-one springs to my mind. I understand the formula you are using and it works for China,they didn't spend the money in the first place so bulk sales mean big profits.
i think a good example here is... how many chinese copies of **** do you see on oem parts/how many cars are released from factory with cheap chinese copies?
none. because reliability is worth more to them than cutting corners and releasing crap.
none. because reliability is worth more to them than cutting corners and releasing crap.
I didn't mention in comparison with the crap on eBay, I'm talking in terms of companys like Garrett u can hardly say that there stuff is no way near as advanced, reasearch, manufactured as the other companys hey, look under the bonnet of any 100 cars around town and prob find a ratio of 90% Garret turbos, and they sell them at Joe blow price, I can't see them going broke for doing it any time soon, becuase they have been for a long time, can they afford it becuase they out number there sales by 50/1 maybe, I ain't one to try get everything for nothing far from it, and take life as it is with what I have and can afford,
My point was only that it be great if other companys could become more of a market range for your Joe blows like me that's all mate.
My point was only that it be great if other companys could become more of a market range for your Joe blows like me that's all mate.
Hey Dude I am sure no-one is trying to come down on you,but quality has always come at a price.Cutting edge = money.Period.That's why we all don't drive Lambo's.But if Hyundai released one maybe I could afford one if they sourced their carbon fibre from China. LOL
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