My HSGR Lives / Dies / Lives / Dies again and again

[penngwyne]

I have great fear for my little HSGR

Started quite normally in local shop car park, drove 20 metres and amber light with engine came on, pulled into park area.
Oil is a little lower than it probably should be, and is due for a 5000km change
No clunks or bangs were heard
Car will not run, starts and then chugs (sounds like it's firing in the wrong place) and dies shortly after
Local mech thinks ignition coil but will run scantool over it tomorrow

Considering it was only doing about 1500rpm could the timing belt have slipped a notch?

 

[MattL]

Timing Belt may have jumped... personally, I wouldn't drive it... I would get someone to look at it ASAP and then see how you go.

 

[penngwyne]

Timing Belt may have jumped... personally, I wouldn't drive it... I would get someone to look at it ASAP and then see how you go.

Thanks for thatI
had it picked up by the RAA (loaded onto a truck) and taken to the garage
who I will ring and ask them to check the timing mark alignments before they do anything else

 

[CLuTZ]

It could be a bunch of things- pretty hard to diagnose !

 

[penngwyne]

Hugh sigh of relief
Ignition coil has packed up
Should be back on the road soon

By the way I printed the the translated fuse box, could be very useful!

Thanks for the replies

 

[penngwyne]

Oh bugger it has two coils and the second one shat 5 minutes after replacing the first one on Monday.
It's now Wednesday & I just got it back at lunch time whoo hooo.

Should I be able to hear the turbo whistling? I've never really noticed it before

 

[brettu26]

Should I be able to hear the turbo whistling? I've never really noticed it before

only if its boosting properly

 

[doommachine]

Apparently it's died again, and it's throwing many ECU codes at once.

The mechanic says that the brand new bosch coils have failed, one of them doesn't work; I just don't see how they could do it spontaneously. It might be dead, but something has to have killed it.

Anyway, the other issue the car has apart from the dead coil is a flashing check engine light.. it's throwing these codes :

25
31
41
54
44
59

None of those (from my readings) have much to do with the ignition coils, right? So... I'm thinking it's probably the ECU. The car starts when it is dead cold, but when it heats up it runs, then after stopping it won't restart.

I've heard that the CAS can be a bit funny when it's hot if it's on the way out? (one DSM forum suggested throwing cold water on the CAS when the car won't start to test if that's what it is). But what else could cause a bunch
of seemingly unrelated error codes apart from the ECU itself being faulty, or the wiring loom near the ECU being faulty?

 

[penngwyne]

Yes as Doom said

Mechanic suggested heat related problem with coil.
He had an input to the coil while cranking but nothing coming out on the HT side
Is there something that would inhibit the coil output ? (One coil at a time?)

The flashing check engine light was occurring when the scan tool was plugged in.

Funny thing was the engine seemed to be idling ok with the EMS light on but wouldn't work after turning
off the ignition.

I'm about to pull the ECU and check for blown caps

 

[MattL]

the flashing light when the cord is connected is normal

 

[penngwyne]

Caps all look good, no bulges top or bottom and no leaks. All looks nice & clean.
Two Right hand plugs on the ECU came out easily with depressing the lock(almost fell out)
but the left hand one was very tight & caused some bad language.

Hey Dan I found out what the bent bit of metal on the kick panel is for
It gets in the way when you are trying to remove the ECU.

 

[MattL]

haha, that's why my ECU hangs down and hasn't been re-bolted since the car was tuned by VR401... incase I need to change something.

 

[to4garret]

When is was blowing coils up it was caused by the ptr (ignitor) starting to die. It wasn't dead enough to through a code, but would over charge the coil enough to **** it real fast.

Something else to loom into.

 

[penngwyne]

Interesting.

Originally one coil was OK, and after replacement the other coil failed and was also replaced.
What would inhibit the spark on one coil but not the other AND THEN swap to the other coil

If I understand it the igniter actually breaks the connection to the primary winding
to allow the secondary coil flux to collapse rapidly and produce the high voltage?
Or is there something else at work here like a capacitor discharge ignition to boost the primary voltage??

Still they must be pretty poor coils to break so easily.

This time while cranking the coil had an input signal but no output spark, then it came good!
The sad thing is it is an intermittent fault, it hasn't happened since

I am driving round on tip toes waiting for it to happen again (that would make a good photo)
I chickened out and took the Missus' Avalon to Adelaide for the weekend.

 

[penngwyne]

When is was blowing coils up it was caused by the ptr (ignitor) starting to die. It wasn't dead enough to through a code, but would over charge the coil enough to **** it real fast.

Something else to loom into.

Tell me more about this please.
How do I check igniter?
One of the new coils stopped working and then came good. Is this a symptom?

How does the igniter overcharge the coil?

 

[penngwyne]

Well all of the above again

This time it was sitting in the drive, dead cold.
Symptoms exactly as before

Could it be the CAS with an intermittent problem?

As the coils are shared over 2 cylinders (I think) Then something must be causing ignition to occur in the wrong place.
The motor turns over, sometimes fires weakly then stops turning with a definite clunk.

Is there some way I can disconnect the coils and fuel pump while letting the starter turn the motor over? (just to prove it's not mechanical)
I believe damage to coils can be caused by letting them run open circuit.
Last time coils were replaced with new ones from Bosch

Need help, circuit diagrams, any ideas

Must have happened before??

 

[BMGTZ]

here is something to think about.....a guy over here got some new coils for his car from meek. they were aftermarket and for an evo and his engine... an evo 3....should be all good ...right?

the terminals were different orientation on the replacements....the old and new both have one large terminal and one small on the coils. BUT the new coils for positive and negative were around opposite to the standard coils. not being sure of whats what he put it together where the wiring fitted and it ran...and he thought OK all is well.

then the car failed for a completely different reason....so after fixing that failure it wouldn't go.. yet was running when it had the mechanical failure. he tried a few things and didnt look at the coils...because they were new...how could they be stuffed ...right?

well we changed the coils and she fired right up....at this time we discussed the fact that the terminals are opposed.

I have no idea about the effect of wiring a coil up backwards but could that be your problem?......get some second have genuine coils and compare then to the new ones you have to see if the terminals are the same.

 

[4piknup]

'I have no idea about the effect of wiring a coil up backwards'

the sparks will go backwards, the exhaust will changes into petrol and the tank will start to fill up?

 

[penngwyne]

Also wonder about the relationship between the CAS and the Camshaft position sensor
I guess the CAS indicates which pistons are up and the Cam sensor decides which cylinder to fire?
Or is it the other way around?

Need a circuit.

 

[penngwyne]

Need to find pin outs for the RVR ECU
Have hunted through forums and on line but so far no luck

Any guides to the right place would be appreciated

I just don't seem to get on with the search engine on this forum